Was looking at different categories of dota 2 heroes and got a couple of ideas:

1)

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2)

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3.

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4.

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5.

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To summarize i would say that we need more distinctive categories because many of them overlap. For instance: earthshaker is a supporter/ganker/initiator and Shadow-Shaman fits under ganker/initiator/supporter/pusher. You see what i mean? It is very reductionist to categorize a her with a single label like "support" or "ganker".

First this is not the place for any posts but the hero posts... second about the groups we are just copying valve we don't want us saying one thing and the game saying something else.

banebu wrote:

First this is not the place for any posts but the hero posts... second about the groups we are just copying valve we don't want us saying one thing and the game saying something else.

Could you please give a link to the site where all the categories are shown?

I do not have it you will have to wait for nexus to come...

1, 3, 4, 5 suggestion > we did them in the way of how they are listed in dota 2 filter. So, it's not good idea to change that, although we don't agree with some choices.

for 2nd suggestion, i need more t-ups, cause i m pretty satisfied with the way how it looks now.

The first T-up is from me for no. 2

I'll try to rephrase suggestion No.2 maybe you guys misunderstood: When i meant int/str/agi categories i didn't mean that carry/ganker and other categories should be divided to match agi/str/int. I just wanted to change the appearance of the header, to have the main three categories on top and the rest such as "ganker, carrier, initiator" under it. Anyway, it's your choice to reject it, the current list just seems a little confusing.

I told you bazinga I totally agree. I understood what you ment.

I'll add a poll. Maybe some people are just too lazy to justify their opinion and too ashamed of writing a one word answer in the discussion

I just noticed Prophet is not in any category (pusher, ganker, carry, etc...)

I'll agree on the Slard / Necro / Storm suggestions, eventhough I'm really surprised there is no such category as semi-carry, since these 3 heroes can be considered as such, in dota 1 at least.

Storm can somehow carry from a certain level (let's say 8-9) to the end of midgame/beginning of the late (or mid of the lategame), since once his manapool is dry, whell, you won't jump around, and the right-clicking power aint this great.
Actually Initiator fits him much better than carry (as he gets easy outcarried)

Somehow same scheme goes for Slard and Necro.

As for the Pugna suggestion, I don't know. He can support with ward / bane, but then he's kinda effed up. Seen also games when he gets meka, jango, pipe, and such. Tho, his pusher ability seems somehow more obvious, indeed. Anti-pusher category aint here so.. yeah. Pusher.


Thus said, I'm somehow disappointed by the lack of some categories, such as semi-carry, anti-pusher, roamer (yeah, ganker can fit, ofc, but hey, haters are hating right?), jungler, etc. Not complaining, nor critcizing, just pointing out the distribution of different "roles" of heroes in a game is complicated stuff. This would for sure induce that heroes like furion, for example, would be in 3 categories (or even 4 with agha).

Thus said, I'm somehow disappointed by the lack of some categories, that would fit some ambigious heroes, such as those 3 for example.

As for the header : yeah, a change would make sense. Not changing would make sense as well, duh.

neph7 wrote:

I'll agree on the Slard / Necro / Storm suggestions, eventhough I'm really surprised there is no such category as semi-carry, since these 3 heroes can be considered as such, in dota 1 at least.

Storm can somehow carry from a certain level (let's say 8-9) to the end of midgame/beginning of the late (or mid of the lategame), since once his manapool is dry, whell, you won't jump around, and the right-clicking power aint this great.
Actually Initiator fits him much better than carry (as he gets easy outcarried)

Somehow same scheme goes for Slard and Necro.

As for the Pugna suggestion, I don't know. He can support with ward / bane, but then he's kinda effed up. Seen also games when he gets meka, jango, pipe, and such. Tho, his pusher ability seems somehow more obvious, indeed. Anti-pusher category aint here so.. yeah. Pusher.


Thus said, I'm somehow disappointed by the lack of some categories, such as semi-carry, anti-pusher, roamer (yeah, ganker can fit, ofc, but hey, haters are hating right?), jungler, etc. Not complaining, nor critcizing, just pointing out the distribution of different "roles" of heroes in a game is complicated stuff. This would for sure induce that heroes like furion, for example, would be in 3 categories (or even 4 with agha).

Thus said, I'm somehow disappointed by the lack of some categories, that would fit some ambigious heroes, such as those 3 for example.

As for the header : yeah, a change would make sense. Not changing would make sense as well, duh.

Good post, +rep for it.

I agree on the lack of categories but i think there would be problems with classygying heroes if there are too many sections and each hero can only be mentioned once. This would create conflct; for instance it is practically impossible to decide whether Sven should be put in the initiator, roamer or carry section. Heroes should not have a single label as most of them fit into more than two (even three) categories. New players should understand that Dota 2 (or DotA for that matter) is not the type of game where a hero should be played only way, the beauty of it is that you can basically do anything and you are not limited to one option such as carry/support/initator etc..

Right now those categories are practically meaningless; just take a look at them. Faceless Void is in the "ganker" instead of the "carrier" section, some people may not care but it the future it can confuse new players, seriously.

I think the system should be changed in the future in order to be more descriptive. There should definetely be main categories such as INT, STR and AGI but the rest of the sections should be removied; instead we will have those categories on every hero (and a list with defenitions of categories with explanation for each). For example:

Akasha:
Semi-carry (if the viewer clicks on semi-carry he will be redirected to the explanation/defenition)
Ganker (if the viewer clicks on ganker he will be redirected to the explanation/defenition)
Initiator (if the viewer clicks on initiator he will be redirected to the explanation/defenition)
--> the rest of the information that is there on hero description page

It just makes much more sense to me this way.

^well, i couldn't agree more, glad you got me on that specific point of the classification.

Bazinga wrote:

I think the system should be changed in the future in order to be more descriptive. There should definetely be main categories such as INT, STR and AGI but the rest of the sections should be removied; instead we will have those categories on every hero (and a list with defenitions of categories with explanation for each). For example:

Akasha:
Semi-carry (if the viewer clicks on semi-carry he will be redirected to the explanation/defenition)
Ganker (if the viewer clicks on ganker he will be redirected to the explanation/defenition)
Initiator (if the viewer clicks on initiator he will be redirected to the explanation/defenition)
--> the rest of the information that is there on hero description page

It just makes much more sense to me this way.

Makes more sense to me as well.

The INT / STR / AGI separation is the most basic and the one that's actually the only one needed.

To what you said here, the redirection to the definition/explanation of what a carry ganker etc is, I'd add that categories such as these (carry etc) should contain the definiton, the role, the importance, just a few generalities basically, and some examples.
Then subdivision : semi carry / hardcore carry.
And some examples.

But not all of them. I don't think explaining all the mecanics, the metagame, the roles and every single thing about the game will actually help. Those of the players who discover dota universe with Dota 2 should, of course, have some "starting background" presented in the sections, hero descriptions, etc, but they should learn the rest by themselves, like most of us did I guess.
(I've been to dota since 2007, or even 2006, and discovered only... a year ago maybe the different roles / names, the pro scene, and all the mecanics related). But i'm going hugely off topic now.

The core idea being : give players just what they need to know not to rush the mid tower at level 1 and quit after 10 deaths saying "game sucks", not to get a s&y on CM, not to buy yasha's recipe as first item.. (I still feel damn off topic :| )


[edit : dunno if it's needed or heck, but ty for the +rep, i appreciate that Bazinga n_n )


edit at below : hey ok é_è chill, was just giving my opinion, i fully understand it's just here for some time and will be changed é_è
gha é_è

OMG HOW MANY TIMES DO WE HAVE TO SAY AND WHY DONT YOU UNDERSTAND? We are just following the game atm to avoid confusion... I don't understand why are you going on with this... people complained about it also and we gave the same answer to everyone. Why do you have to be different and get another and 1000x longer reason.